I did not find the time yet – but this is a very rare interview Malcom McLaren gave to me, who died on 8 April 2010. Probably one of his last? I talked to him in Stockholm on 14 November 2006 about the renaissance of the romantics, the punk aesthetics and the era of bullshit.
Picutre: Malcolm McLaren on stage of the Future Design Days November 2006 in Stockholm. © Marco Siebertz
Marco Siebertz: You say that you dedicated your life to being a flamboyant and magnificent failure. What is so beneficial in failing?
Malcolm McLaren: For artists from the 19th century like Blake, Byron, Shelley or maybe even Vincent van Gogh the artistic process was one long eternal struggle, which never ends and never ever succeeds. And the only great art comes out of that struggle. It’s like being on a train. There maybe a destination but you never arrive t here – because when you do, you are dead! So, in this romantic age still prevailing in the 1960s, you were taught that from day one. Today, if people were told that, they’d probably drop dead in front of that lecture because they’re such scaredy-dares now! They can’t cope with such thoughts! Those thoughts are far too deep today.
Being a failure was part of an old-fashioned, authentic, romantic way of life and vision for an artist. Today the process of creativity can be better compared to a Karaoke-like experience – an “Ersatz”-world, where the messiness, where the struggle doesn’t exist. In a Karaoke world everything is made easy, you never fail. But in an authentic world failure is something you embrace. It’s almost a noble pursuit. I come from that world – it supported me in creating the punk aesthetic.
How was the punk movement connected to this old-fashioned, artistic way of life?
Malcolm McLaren: The punk aesthetic was the last major romantic attack against an oncoming onslaught of a corporate world. That’s what punk was about. It wasn’t about music – that was just ten percent, that was just an ingredient, that was the salt and pepper on the mix of whatever else was going on that plate. It was a decision of some of us, a few disenfranchised art students, embarking into the real world after the 60s and thinking: ‘How are we going to live in this world and find a window where we can become magnificent and brilliant and flamboyant failures rather than some kind of benign success? How can we contribute? We don’t want to while our way in an attic painting a picture!’ We’ve already tasted the wine of Andy Warhol that was coming in from another ocean. We were no longer living in a culture of necessity. We were now living under the dominant culture of the United States, which was a culture of desires. We were having to deal with that and also with imparting that same old fashioned romantic vision.
Did you honestly believe you could stop the commercialisation of the world?
Malcolm McLaren: We sat about the task by declaring ourselves not for sale and creating little torpedo missions: some of them in the form of a group like the Sex Pistols – which we knew was going to fail, but no problem! Suicide bombers go to kill American tanks and know that they are going to die and fail. By the same time you do it because it is for a greater course than just yourself. And so – in some respect – there’s a kingship spirit between that suicide bomber and terrorist to us back then, who were unquestionably culture terrorists of a similar nature.
We were fighting what was an obvious, difficult, never-ending and probably impossible struggle to shoot arrows at this oncoming juggernaut of what was a corporate machine that was going to sweep us away and turn this whole culture into nothing more than a Karaoke playground. And once you understand that, you understand there’s a balance: there’s a Karaoke culture and there’s an authentic culture. The authentic culture is probably not very big right now. If you look around here and try to find something authentic, it’s like looking for a ruby in a field of tin – impossible to find!
What will there be after this »Karaoke« culture? What comes next?
Malcolm McLaren: I kind of conceived that the romantic age is coming back in a very different form but very much within the new generation of the computer-literate of this century, which are the seven-year-olds, who unquestionably can understand Contemporary Art and its references, because from the day they’re born they can see what an »M« means. Before they can read they know that this is McD…, the place where you buy fast food. The same respect to Contemporary Art: they can understand all the multi-references – they can read the logo. Their ability to understand Contemporary Art at a very early age, their ability to google up any kind of information they want, means the intelligentsia of this generation is probably, unquestionably I think, going to be far, far, far better informed than any generation previously. That means if you take that as a leap of faith, even before they reach puberty they could be far more informed than the older generation who are in their early twenties. And far more adept at manipulating the culture than the generation earlier.
What does this development mean for Contemporary Art?
Malcolm McLaren: I honestly believe that Contemporary Art is the mainstream of culture now! It is the last bastion of culture that has some kind of integrity, because it is unique. And that’s what we all look for. As it usually is not for sale, it has a provenance as something we desire the most. Fashion has become far too corporate – we don’t care. Product design – we don’t care. The idea of communicating is in Contemporary Art! It measures everything. That’s the centre and the mainstream of our culture now. Just as we had teen-pop-idols in the 50s or in the 60s, we could now have teen-artists, because music as you know, as we all know, has moved to the side. It’s no longer in the centre. It can’t fulfil it. There’s not sufficient intellectual curiosity in the people doing it or expressing themselves in it to give us what we truly need: which is a real critique in this world right now.
So the future is not sex, drugs and rock ‘n’ roll but teen artists?
Malcolm McLaren: I think at the moment they’re going to think that sex is very overrated. And I think the reason is because it’s associated with bullshit – for example Volvo Cars doing advertising with a girl in a Bikini. Every time they see sex, it’s kind of located to something bullshit. So it looses its integrity. It’s like you are pouring more and more water on the wine. Sex has been abused in that regard. It will have to be found in some other arena. I always thought when punk rock exploded that it was better than sex. I think we’d love to see the next generation finding something else of a similar nature. It’s all too obvious, this culture at the moment. I don’t believe in it!
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